Comments on Market Skeptics: Italy Seizes $135 BILLION Treasury Bonds And US Fi...

I wouldn't call them seriously stupid forgers sinc...

2009-07-05T21:58:42.310-07:00

I wouldn't call them seriously stupid forgers since they did such a good job of it. AFter all, it's not supposed to be easy to forge the bonds. Though these denominations never existed, and if they did, they would have only been owned by banks and governments, and they would have used electronic transfer as most transactions are done today. Excepting bearer bonds of course, but those of US origin (I believe this is correct though I no longer follow the market regs that closely since I left the field entirely in 2003) would have matured long ago.

Wow. So many paranoid nut jobs in one place. Ama...

2009-06-30T08:08:59.083-07:00

Wow. So many paranoid nut jobs in one place. Amazing. This is just a case of some seriously stupid forgers doing a laughable job -- it's the international equivalent of that guy who tried to use a million dollar check at Wal-Mart. Not a real news story, except maybe for News of the Weird or This Is True. Sure did push y'all's buttons, tho! You folks need some fresh air.

This could be a false flag perpetrated by a group ...

2009-06-24T08:47:25.529-07:00

This could be a false flag perpetrated by a group who bet the dollar would fall.

They would need a lot of money to pull this off, but they would profit even more if it worked and the dollar fell sharply in the days following the news stories.

Here's how it would work. A group of investors bet a very large sum the dollar will fall around that date. They basically short the dollar, perhaps with $20 billion.

One of the leaders of the group hires an expert forger from Thailand who speaks no English to create the fake bonds. Maybe he spends $100,000 for the forgieres.

He then hires two Japanese businessmen to carry the suitcases, but they don't know what's inside.

The leader then gives a tip-off to the Italian police about the suitcases. If he didn't the police never would have found them hidden the way they were.

When discovered on that certain date, the group leaders make sure all the newspapers hear about the story of Japan supposedly dumping $135 billion in dollars.

Lo and behold, the dollar falls sharply in a few days, perhaps losing 2% or 3%, which means their $20 billion investment in "shorting the dollar" bring them $500 million profit in just a few days.

At least, that's how the group leaders hoped it would go.

In reality, Japan doesn't need to sell dollars on the black market. It can sell what it wants on the regular market no problem, but Japan doesn't want to sell dollars.

It was a hoax perpetrated by a group who wanted to short the dollar to make a quick profit. To find the culprit, look for the biggest European group who promotes dollar sell offs and shorting the dollar.

Here's something to consider. These guys may have ...

2009-06-17T22:22:03.820-07:00

Here's something to consider. These guys may have been carrying Japanese passports, but are we sure they're actually from Japan? North Korea has been suspected of counterfeiting US currency. See this article from 2006.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/23/magazine/23counterfeit.html?pagewanted=all

I'm from the US. US Government Bonds are issued i...

2009-06-17T18:45:45.280-07:00

I'm from the US. US Government Bonds are issued in exchange for money with an agreement with the US Government to pay the money back plus interest. These Bonds have the purchasers name on the face of the Bond and the US Government has a record of whom the Bond was issued to. If the originally Bonds are lost, the US Government may chose to not pay the money back to the Bond purchaser. This allows the US to gain money from foreign countries by the issuance of the Bonds but not have to pay the money back. What a way to obtain wealth while the original investor gets screwed.

I smell a scam.... http://www.signonsandiego.com/...

2009-06-16T20:37:26.978-07:00

I smell a scam....

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20040910-9999-7m10bonds.html

Based on the amounts and countries involved, and t...

2009-06-16T08:00:20.108-07:00

Based on the amounts and countries involved, and the timing with the recent U.S. Treasury auctions, I wouldn't be surprised if the FED sent the money to Japan to buy the U.S Treasuries and send them back to the FED.

The FED had been catching a lot of flack from China, Russia and others for buying U.S. Treasuries. Right after the auctions it turned out that Japan was the primary buyer and announced they had "great confidence" in U.S. Treasuries.

The mister making the announcement recently resigned for some reason.

This is certainly a interesting story. What I got...

2009-06-15T15:38:18.328-07:00

This is certainly a interesting story. What I got from reading several articles is that Japan is dumping anything they have in US currency. Why they didnt know if these where real is because only governments can have such high value US bonds.
Side note a ranking official in Japan has resigned this week.
And I agree the US media is blacking out anything to do with this story. The only reporting I have seen is on the Glenn Beck show on the Fox news channel.

The article in "Die Welt" says only that according...

2009-06-14T20:24:38.269-07:00

The article in "Die Welt" says only that according to Italian authorities the bonds are "probably real". The ultimate confirmation of the quality of these bonds can only be given by the US Treasury. So far, we have not heard anything from US authorities.

Assuming that the bonds are real, what legitimate owner of these bonds would chose to transport them over the Italian Swiss border putting 40% of the bonds at risk to be confiscated by the Italian authorities? People are not that stupid.

The only possibility left is an illegitimate owner of real bonds or an illegitimate owner of fake bonds. I still think that the bonds are a high quality scam.

Die Welt, German news site, claims US bonds, seize...

2009-06-14T08:08:24.863-07:00

Die Welt, German news site, claims US bonds, seized in Italy, are REAL. http://is.gd/11GLY

First, with the US Treasury creating second, third...

2009-06-13T18:49:45.783-07:00

First, with the US Treasury creating second, third and fourth sets of Balance Books, as is well known now, there is no telling anymore what is real money or not. The vague identity of these bonds is no surprise. What may be clear is that the "forgery" theory is rediculous, since only the upper elite on this planet handles custom-designed bonds of this size, and these are unavailable to normal markets. One could contest that all Bonds and US dollars are a forgery, since there are multiple, publicly inaccessible balance books that prove the actual value of any US-based currency. That aside. What the purpose of this bonds transport was is beyond anyone's scope. What does one do in Switzerland? Deposit cash, and/or buy gold. Why they got caught is the real matter. I think these Japanese guys were patsies, fall guys, uninformed, and well told how to travel, where and when, maybe even unaware of the actual content of their suitcase. Bonds are only worth money to those that think they are. The Treasury couldn't care less. They print them, stock them, and can declare them fake at a whimp. What is left is the agenda for this subtle scandal. Any news about anyone dumping 135 billion US dollars for Gold has an impact on the market. Follow the money. Next to that one might look at the international stage, to see whether there are factors to be found that may indicate why at this moment specifically, the Japanese government needed to be pressured, warned, or discredited through this loss of face.

On further searching, I did find initial articles ...

2009-06-13T08:22:24.317-07:00

On further searching, I did find initial articles published on June 11 by both Mainichi and Asahi, but simply repeating the Kyodo article.

Oddly enough, the coverage in China has been almost zilch (despite all their laughter at Geithner). The only real _news_ report in Chinese on the incident was published June 12 by -- of all things -- the Voice of America (http://www.voanews.com/chinese/mobile/displaystory.cfm?id=643478&metadataid=10), and the story has not been picked up by any other media outlet. The only other entries for this story in Chinese that show up on Google (searching for 意大利两名日本人美国债券 and similar terms) are about 6-7 entries on blogs and Twitter pages.

In Japanese it was first picked up by Kyodo on Jun...

2009-06-13T07:46:58.886-07:00

In Japanese it was first picked up by Kyodo on June 10 (cf. http://www.47news.jp/CN/200906/CN2009061001000996.html), in a press release based entirely on published Italian press sources (primarily an article in the national daily Il giornale).

Searching for the following terms together -- "邦人2人"　"イタリア"　"米債券" "押収" -- yields "about 1,320" results on Google. But most of these are from minor news sources or blogs, not the major papers (Asahi, Yomiuri, Mainichi, Nikkei) or networks (Fuji Sankei, Asahi, etc.). So apparently the news is not being considered -- or treated -- as very important in Japan. And since the original article on June 10 (and recall that the ADNKronos story published on the Guardia di Finanza's official site is dated June 4) there do not seem to have been any new details appearing in Japanese.

Bloomberg is now covering the story too. http://w...

2009-06-13T06:24:57.819-07:00

Bloomberg is now covering the story too.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=afJXAA1ahZyo

nobody does any googling anymore? trillions of fak...

2009-06-13T03:14:32.905-07:00

nobody does any googling anymore? trillions of fake us bonds have been around for some time it seems...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1180171.stm

Perhaps the Japanese royal family is cashing out o...

2009-06-12T22:27:41.403-07:00

Perhaps the Japanese royal family is cashing out on their secret American investments to either pay off large debts outstanding or because they have lost confidence in their American partners?

Anonymous said... The story does not make any sen...

2009-06-12T19:00:12.131-07:00

Anonymous said...
The story does not make any sense regardless whether the bonds are fabricated or real. For that reason the story must be a fake story. That also explains why the official media keep quiet about it.

The story is real. Click here for more information inclusing links to two bloomberg articles.

By the way, whether they are genuine or fake, the confiscated US bonds were no doubt heading to a "port franc". These places are a legal "no man's land", located in Switzerland but not officially on Swiss soil (like embassies). These "port franc" are used to store all types expensive and exotic (sometimes illegal) goods, including art, gold, weapons, bearer bonds, etc...

My mother has been to Geneva's port franc several times to authenticate the art stored there (she is an art restorer).

I will write an entry about these "port franc" over the weekend.

The story does not make any sense regardless wheth...

2009-06-12T15:56:05.274-07:00

The story does not make any sense regardless whether the bonds are fabricated or real. For that reason the story must be a fake story. That also explains why the official media keep quiet about it.

What if the value is real and Japan is hiding a ma...

2009-06-12T14:30:21.023-07:00

What if the value is real and Japan is hiding a major gold transaction with the Swiss?

Yes, the 40% fine for illegal export of money abov...

2009-06-12T13:23:05.661-07:00

Yes, the 40% fine for illegal export of money above 10,000 euros would account for this year deficit of Italian government (and maybe also for rebuilding Abruzzo region hit by an earthquake).

Here in Italy newspapers and TV do not talk anymore of the fact. TV did never. Only bloggers are still debating it.

BTW, I read also that the two "Japaneses" are not in jail, but were left free because illegal money export is not an offence granting jail in Italy. If the bonds are counterfeit, however, they will be charged for moeny forgery, which is a grave offence.
BTW 2: the hats are those of Swiss and Italian finance police.

If real, US bonds seized by Italian customs would ...

2009-06-12T11:48:02.533-07:00

If real, US bonds seized by Italian customs would wipe out Italian budget deficit.

Read: http://is.gd/102DE

Jim, You are assuming that everyone wants their e...

2009-06-12T08:20:06.792-07:00

Jim,

You are assuming that everyone wants their entry in a computer. Some would argue that the world is run by criminals, and they can only go so far in assuming the sheeple will ignore their obvious criminality. Thus, the need for unregistered bonds.

Josey,

Japan is notorious for these off the books deals with the US. Read "Gold Warriors" by Seagrave for one take on it. In any case, there's a huge amount of hidden assets, including gold and bonds, in the world. We're just not supposed to mention that Japan plundered Asia, Germany plundered Europe, and the rulers of Taiwan grabbed everything they could as they left China. And, of course, one could assume the US has plundered Iraq.

Who in his right mind would counterfeit a 0.5 bn$ ...

2009-06-12T07:23:16.240-07:00

Who in his right mind would counterfeit a 0.5 bn$ bond?

What would it serve for?

> ... in Germany you basically never see Police in...

2009-06-12T06:25:23.987-07:00

> ... in Germany you basically never see Police in the trains ...

I am german, and this is wrong. If you live in a near border area, you see police in trains quite frequently.

Obviously fake. A billion dollar bond note? Even i...

2009-06-12T05:27:09.371-07:00

Obviously fake. A billion dollar bond note? Even if we had one, then the transfer would have taken place electronically. Another stupid con designed to seperate money from the stupid. And, I'm glad that at least one country has enough sense to laugh at Geitner. What an ass he is.